how to achieve max quality in fairuse wizard, x264 settings

I've decided to start using fairuse because i cant figure out how to get megui to make an avs script for dvd files because there are 3 or 4 .vob files.

ANYWAY

I'm curious which codec settings will achieve the best quality in fairuse, there are so many i really don't know which one to use.



those are my options, and i know 2pass is really good for quality, so i have that checked, but what about singlepass/multipass options? I thought multipass nth pass was the best, and then tried bitrate based single pass.

Can anyone tell me which i should pick for the best quality? i don't mind "how fast", but im trying to make 1:1 dvd rips around 5 gigs so quality is really important to me. this is also a prereq for when i start ripping BD, so I want to get this right.

thanks!

If space is not an issue use one pass constant quality/quantizer. Lower the quantizer for higher quality(bigger file size).

2-pass is good if you want to set a output file size.

well like i said, about 5gigs is what im looking for, no more than that just for dvd quality. so (CQP) then?

either way, if that will give me around 5 gigs, sweet

should i keep the little two pass button checked on the main menu?

or should i change the checkbox to quantizer and select 1?

also, what about lossless? would that make me end up with a ridiculously large file?

If you are converting a ~7GB DVD to a ~5GB file, it's probably overkill with H.264. H.264 responds better with lower bitrates. High bitrates will give you about the same quality as a Xvid/DivX at those bitrates. No real advantage using H.264 in that case. Just my opinion, but I use a target filesize of about 1.5 - 2GB with H.264>DVD conversions, with two pass encoding, and keep the original 5.1 AC3 audio.

Now if you want to convert a 25GB BD file to a 7.95GB DVD-9 DL disc file, H.264 is a excellent choice.

Originally Posted by redwudz

If you are converting a ~7GB DVD to a ~5GB file, it's probably overkill with H.264. H.264 responds better with lower bitrates. High bitrates will give you about the same quality as a Xvid/DivX at those bitrates. No real advantage using H.264 in that case. Just my opinion, but I use a target filesize of about 1.5 - 2GB with H.264>DVD conversions, with two pass encoding, and keep the original 5.1 AC3 audio.

Now if you want to convert a 25GB BD file to a 7.95GB DVD-9 DL disc file, H.264 is a excellent choice.

so what would you choose to make it as close as possible to a 1:1 rip?

because i don't think a 2gig file will do it.

That depends on the quality, running time, format of the source video, and the quality you desire. You can do some sample encodes with a representative clip of maybe 5 - 10 minutes duration with different bitrates to see how it looks. You could use VD Mod for that and the same X.264 VFW codec FairUse Wizard uses.

right now im setting my filezise to 4.5 gigs, and it seems to be giving me a bitrate of 6.5k roughly.

i wonder how it will turn out =)

im using single pass bitrate based, with the 2pass checkbox checked. i tried quantizer based but it gave me a 13 gig file, which is way to big for a dvd lool

i wish i could see the output filzesize on the quantizer because it looked basically dvd quality. i also took a 1 minute clip and made it lossless. holy cow it was big but was identical to dvd quality.


edit* sorry for double post, was an accident

OK, I can't tell a difference between lossless/quantizer 1 and single pass bitrate based at 6500kbps(multipass checked).

which is great!! now i will i try it a little lower at say 5000kbps and see if there is much quality loss. the output size was 4.5 gigs

ok ive got a few questions though...

im using single pass bitrate based, is that my best bet? (check the above pic)


also, if i were to encode say a 1:20 dvd at 5000kbps and a 1:20 BD at 5000kbps, would filesize and quality pretty much be the same? or since blu ray is so much better than dvd will quality loss be much more noticable than on the dvd?

EDIT* I just did a little thinking and i came to this conclusion, but still have no clue and would like input

say at 5000kbps, the dvd comes to 3.5gb and has very little quality loss, if any.

a Blu ray movie at 5000kbps would be LARGER, like maybe 6GB because the resolution is higher, right? I'm still unsure if the quality loss would be more notiacble from the dvd, but I'm thinking no, since bitrate is bitrate.

i see a lot of people backup their bluray movies as 720p and wondered how they did that, since i thought blu ray discs are set at 1080p and dont include a 720p version. do they just resize the resolution in their converting program and encode as they normally would? i figure that would cut the size down a lot while still having good quality.

im using single pass bitrate based, is that my best bet?

No. Use single pass quality based or 2 pass bitrate based.

a Blu ray movie at 5000kbps would be LARGER, like maybe 6GB because the resolution is higher, right?

No. If the bitrate is the same for the same movie, the final size will be the same. The resolution has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by manono

im using single pass bitrate based, is that my best bet?

No. Use single pass quality based or 2 pass bitrate based.

a Blu ray movie at 5000kbps would be LARGER, like maybe 6GB because the resolution is higher, right?

No. If the bitrate is the same for the same movie, the final size will be the same. The resolution has nothing to do with it.

1. alright well i don't have any of those as my options, i can only use whats in the screenshot of the first post. ratefactor or quantizer, and they dont show me estimated file size =(can you tell me which one to use out of my options? i really want to have an idea of filesize, as i dont want huge huge movies, 3-5gb is what im aiming for depending on movie length. right now im very satisfied with 6500kbps bitrate, and will be trying 5000kbps bitrate so yeah.

2. what i meant was comparing the blu ray movie to dvd version of the same movie. in that case it would have to be larger right? i mean the resolution is what makes blu ray blue ray, and with it so beautiful and large, including filesize.

or are you saying resolution truly has nothing to do with file size, in which case, why do so many people prefer their rips to be 720p rather than 1080p? at least from what ive seen 720 is more popular.

1. alright well i don't have any of those as my options, i can only use whats in the screenshot of the first post.

You have both of those options. You have single-pass quantizer (=quality based) and 2-pass for a given size (=bitrate based).

2. what i meant was comparing the blu ray movie to dvd version of the same movie. in that case it would have to be larger right?

Maybe that's what you meant, but it's not what you said. Yes, a Blu-Ray movie has a higher resolution than does DVD video, and DVD uses MPEG-2 and Blu-Ray usually uses H.264, which compresses better than does MPEG-2. But yes, a Blu-Ray movie (video and audio together) is quite a bit larger than a DVD movie. But it doesn't have to be. Give them the same bitrate and they'll be the same size.

Originally Posted by manono

1. alright well i don't have any of those as my options, i can only use whats in the screenshot of the first post.

You have both of those options. You have single-pass quantizer (=quality based) and 2-pass for a given size (=bitrate based).

2. what i meant was comparing the blu ray movie to dvd version of the same movie. in that case it would have to be larger right?

Maybe that's what you meant, but it's not what you said. Yes, a Blu-Ray movie has a higher resolution than does DVD video, and DVD uses MPEG-2 and Blu-Ray usually uses H.264, which compresses better than does MPEG-2. But yes, a Blu-Ray movie (video and audio together) is quite a bit larger than a DVD movie. But it doesn't have to be. Give them the same bitrate and they'll be the same size.

ok cool, so what would you prefer, single pass quantizer or 2pass bitrate? i would think quantizer to be the better option since you and baldrick both mentioned it, and i suppose it would be ideal if i could find a good "number" i set it on 1 and my movie went out of control and ended up mega gigs.

so i ask this, for backing up dvd movies only, and trying to get the best quality out of them you can(preferably just as good as the dvd), without filesizes larger than 5 gigs for long movies, and 3ish for comedies and such, what would you use for my fairuse options?

im thinking ill try quantizer of like 5 or 6, what do you think?

I don't use FairUse and don't do much x264 encoding, so I can't comment on or recommend anything to do with them. It's usually said that you do the 1-pass quant encodes when you want a given quality but size isn't a consideration and you run 2 passes when you need a specific size. I prefer quant encodes when possible. Just don't use the single pass bitrate-based (ABR).

Originally Posted by llmercll

what would you prefer, single pass quantizer or 2pass bitrate?

It depends on whether you want a specific file size or a specific quality. If you want specific file size you use 2 pass VBR -- but you don't really know what the quality will be. Conversely, if you want a specific quality you use quantizer based encoding -- but you don't know what the file size will be.

I don't care exactly how big the files turn out, I care that the quality be acceptable, so I use quantizer based encoding (h.264 virtually always turns out much smaller than an MPEG2 source when the encoder is set for visibly near lossless compression).

Convert a few short samples with different quantizers to determine what quantizer value is acceptable to you. When using x264 I usually use usually CRF (constant rate factor) mode. This is constant quality with attention paid to what the human eye is sensitive to. CQP (constant quantizer) mode is constant quality in a more mathematical sense, ignoring whether or not you're eyes will be able to see the difference.

Originally Posted by jagabo

Originally Posted by llmercll

what would you prefer, single pass quantizer or 2pass bitrate?

It depends on whether you want a specific file size or a specific quality. If you want specific file size you use 2 pass VBR -- but you don't really know what the quality will be. Conversely, if you want a specific quality you use quantizer based encoding -- but you don't know what the file size will be.

I don't care exactly how big the files turn out, I care that the quality be acceptable, so I use quantizer based encoding (h.264 virtually always turns out much smaller than an MPEG2 source when the encoder is set for visibly near lossless compression).

Convert a few short samples with different quantizers to determine what quantizer value is acceptable to you. When using x264 I usually use usually CRF (constant rate factor) mode. This is constant quality with attention paid to what the human eye is sensitive to. CQP (constant quantizer) mode is constant quality in a more mathematical sense, ignoring whether or not you're eyes will be able to see the difference.

hmm interesting, thanks for the post.

well you've pretty much made up my mind for me, quantizer it is, but which one i do not know.

i guess ill just play with both of them, i take it CRF mode gives better filesize or something when compared to CQP?

Yes, CRF will give ~20 percent smaller files than CQP at the same quantizer setting. I'm not convinced it is always makes the right choice about what will be visible to the eyes though.

well one thing is to open the expert mode and also get the latest x264 in the same folder that FW is installed.
and a CQ of 21 to 24 usually wotks for me.

Just depends on what you are encoding new or old movies and anime, etc.

alright jagabo, ill try out cqp first

craigarta, isn't that a little high? will between 21 and 24 give dvd quality? i was thinking of starting out with 5 or 6, but maybe they will be too big?

I never have tried a X264 at 5 may have to try it. I have always ran between 21 and 24.
Mainly cause XVID uses 1 as the best and X264 is the other way around.

Most people around here say that CQP or CRF at 18 is near lossless, visually. If you look at enlarged still frames you will see a little loss of small details. But this won't be noticeable at normal playback speeds.

At CQP 5 you will find the h.264 compressed video is larger than your MPEG2 source.

Originally Posted by jagabo

Most people around here say that CQP or CRF at 18 is near lossless, visually. If you look at enlarged still frames you will see a little loss of small details. But this won't be noticeable at normal playback speeds.

At CQP 5 you will find the h.264 compressed video is larger than your MPEG2 source.

YES! this is exactly what I was looking for! I'll be doing the encode today, thank you so much!